The Entrepreneurs for Impact Podcast: Transcripts
#121
Fossil-Free High-Temperature Industrial Heat Pumps – Geir Robstad, Cofounder of Heaten
PODCAST INTRODUCTION
Chris Wedding:
My guest today is Geir Robstad, Co-founder of Heaten, a very high-temperature heat pump that can achieve 200 degrees Celsius, process temperature at low-cost while being completely independent from fossil fuels. They're backed by leading climate tech investors such as Azolla Ventures.
01:33
In this episode, we talked about how their technologies can reduce greenhouse gas emissions by one gigaton by 2050. Why governments should make it illegal to not use waste heat. What it means for decentralized heat to be the elephant in the room. Their nine-year journey of R&D and $30 million of investment in the predecessor to this current technology. Why they needed to pivot in 2017 to this current solution and this particular customer use case. How they help industrial players in chemicals, paper and district heating create process heat at lower cost with clean energy. The massive benefits of COTS and if you don't know, sorry, got to listen to find out that secret, and why it's a good thing for a business to have competitors. Hope you enjoy it and please give Geir and Heaten a shout-out on LinkedIn, Slack, or Twitter by sharing this podcast with your people. Thanks.
PODCAST INTERVIEW
Chris Wedding:
Geir Robstad, Co-founder of Heaten joining us all the way across the big pond from Norway, welcome to the show.
Geir Robstad:
Thanks a lot. I am both happy and very honored to be a part of the show.
Chris Wedding:
Well, great. So, in warming up here before pressing record, you mentioned something which I think is important to start with, which is something along the lines of, in quotation marks, “It should be illegal to waste good heat.” And you gave an example of data centers let's say, that are wasting five megawatts an hour of heat that could be harnessed perhaps with tech like yours to become something usable. This is your words, I'm giving you the microphone indirectly here, “If we're serious about climate change, we can't be wasting good heat like this.” Yeah?
Geir Robstad:
Yeah, exactly. I couldn't have said it better. We modulated it or took it down a little bit and we reworded it that we need to make wasting usable heat illegal. But what I told you when we started was what I have said earlier, as we took it down, but it is very serious. For a data center, which makes absolutely nothing, it's 100% heat. When you do the work on the internet and wasting all that five, six, seven megawatts out into the air, which is perfect usable heat for us to make steam off directly, it should be illegal.
04:13
And also, anything from chemical processes, everything from cooling towers, megawatt or gigawatt pouring out, we need to take care of that heat because the energy is still there. It's just at a value or a temperature level which nobody can use, so what do you do? You refine it and that's what we have to do with a high temperature heat pump.
Chris Wedding:
I'm just thinking about an analogy, and I was listening to a tech podcast yesterday talking about, well, there is this model that we've seen with Airbnb, Uber, et cetera, of taking an underutilized asset and making it productive and creating multi-billion dollar often tech companies. I mean, it's not too dissimilar from what you're talking about here. I mean, it isn't the heat is underutilized, but maybe waste is similar.
Geir Robstad:
Yeah. You can't even use underutilized, it's wasted because of course in all chemical, paper, they are very good taking care of the heat, so exchanging the exergy down to a level. They are very good at using the energy to an exergy level they need. So, if they start with a higher temperature, they take it down to lower, maybe exchanging it to another process, but at a certain level, many times very high. I’m now in Fahrenheit. Can I be Celsius or is it--?
Chris Wedding:
Let's just go with Celsius and assume our audience is more sophisticated than I am. Yeah.
Geir Robstad:
Anyway, from 30 degrees up to 80, 90 degrees. So, from 100 Fahrenheit-ish and up to, I don't know, sorry for not being prepared on this question.
Chris Wedding:
How dare you follow the global norm of Celsius? Well, let's switch from this weak attempt to compare you all to Airbnb to, you've alluded to, give us the quick pitch on Heaten, Geir.
Geir Robstad:
I will. So, electrifying industrial heat processes is the most important CO2 reduction task. We, Heaten, develop and produce an industrial high temperature heat pump that can produce steam or high temperature hot water by reusing usable waste heat from industry, resulting up to 85% reduction in CO2 emission and cost. If we add another dimension to it, because now this is the pitch, then we need to put this in a global perspective, that decarbonizing heat is the elephant in the room for the industrial energy transition. So, this is what we're talking about.
Industrial heat accounts for approximately 25% of total global energy consumption and 50% of this can be covered by a heat pump, the heat booster. Then you just put you in perspective, so again, to repeat, 25% of all energy used on the globe is industrial heat and 50% of that can be recovered and used by the heat booster [inaudible – 00:07:36].
Chris Wedding:
I love that you repeated that, what a great teacher. I love that you repeated that for the listeners and also for me as I'm writing my next questions or whatnot, for me as well. So, what is the source of the waste heat that you-all repurpose, capture?
07:57
Geir Robstad:
That can be everything from all the way down to cooling towers so it can be batch processes, some dairy, brewery, but it must be waste heat. It must be heat you either use a cooler to cool away, you use water, river water to cool away, or that you basically have as surplus heat in your process. There's been a lot of studies locating because it doesn't help having only the heat sink needs. So, there steam and the high temperature water heat. You also need the source heat because you just -- Well, basically you could pull it out of here, but in northern part of the world that wouldn't be efficient enough. I mean, most of the cases we're exploring now it's from cooling tower temperature to steam.
Chris Wedding:
I can imagine that there are lots of reasons why customers would choose to buy your product, think of energy savings or cost savings primarily, but I'm wondering, as you mentioned, where this heat goes, and you mentioned river water as an example. I think about either permits needed or biodiversity impacts from thermal issues in the water. How much of the motivation to buy you-all's product is related to where the heat is dumped as a fee avoided, let's say, or is it more just the former energy costs saved?
Geir Robstad:
Yeah, so maybe that's a multi-dimension question, because if you look at it from one perspective, throwing it away anyway will reduce CO2 emissions. So, if you reuse it, you will save up to 80% CO2 emission. But if you look at it from a purely environmental, physical, from the direct cooling water, there is a lot of restrictions, not in the ocean, but in the rivers, that actually cooling water, so wastewater or waste heat from the industry is already watered down to get down to a temperature that is allowed to put into the river, for example. But this is still limited and there's also reduction in this because it has environmental issues.
I mean, I come from a place where there's a power station up north and I live with a big fjord and a river going into the fjord. And when my grandmother lived, this fjord was always frozen. After this power station was there, never frozen, so they increased the water by four or five, six degrees. That resulted in, the whole fjord grew with grass because they didn't get ice to rip up the grass every winter. There is a lot of focus on this as well, that there are local environmental challenges by using [crosstalk – 00:10:48] much water.
Chris Wedding:
Okay. Well, Geir, I didn't know when it would happen on the podcast, but I knew it would happen, the word fjord would come up talking to someone -- Well done. The 13-minute mark.
Geir Robstad:
The Norway commercial was [crosstalk – 00:11:05].
Chris Wedding:
That’s right. Yeah. Let’s see. Maybe describe how the roots of Heaten as I saw online, many years in R&D before it became commercialized, it sounds like multiple years ahead of competition that are trying to do something similar with waste heat in industrial settings.
Geir Robstad:
Yeah, so you started back in 2010 with R&D. It was basically based on a desalination of saltwater to recapture this heat that was surplus. Back then it was what we call organic Rankine cycle or ORC to make electricity back from this heat. This was the start, and this was never ever looked at the market that this was made. It was more to fix the problem. Our CTO went in and spent over a year finding the best cycle and the best tool for the job. The conclusion was a piston expander back then.
12:14
Then of course, this organic Rankine cycle was tested and never really calibrated towards the markets. When it was done, it never became commercial attractive. This was due to early entry, it was low costs of energy at that time and of course, also high specific costs for the units. So, it's a little bit like the classic trap we fell into, we found something for a purpose. The sea salination project didn't happen. The ORC was designed because it was great technology, but never ever calibrated to what the market really needed.
This led to a change of strategy in 2016-17, pivoted over to high temperature heat pump after Chemours, the chemical company that makes the refrigerants in some of these. They won the head of global cooling, what do you call it, global refrigeration units, which we know very well said, “Why don't you look at heat pumps?” We did, we made a really smart quick transition. So, of course, I have to explain that the ORC expander is the 99 or 95% same as a heat pump compressor. Having spent six, seven years on really optimizing the ORC for really high temperature, 215 degrees, it was fairly easy for us to pivot over to the high-temperature heat pump and make a heat pump instead.
Another kind of mistake was done by commercializing the heat booster as the same size as the ORC. Still not looking at the market that, what does the market really need? This resulted in a very nice 200 kilowatt high-temperature heat pump. I mean, still running in Switzerland, by the way, today, but it was never made for the market. So, after spending 30 million euros and designing the fantastic high-quality heat pump, this was not the size that the market needed.
Chris Wedding:
Let's pause there. A couple of things. Can you go back to ORC and maybe say a little more about what it is relative to a heat pump? By the way, I'm asking for a friend. I totally know what it is. Ha-ha-ha.
Geir Robstad:
So, it is relative to the heat pump.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, that's right. Similarities differences. Yeah.
Geir Robstad:
The similarity is that it is basically same process in reverse. So, ORC takes waste heat and evaporates a gas. It is a liquid to a gas making pressure like a steam engine, turning around, pushing the piston down, turning around the generator and then making electricity. Condensing it on the other side and then you go cycle. While the heat pump takes waste heat, it makes steam so it evaporates liquid, but then you use electricity to compress this liquid. You take the energy with you in the evaporation phase change. This goes into the piston or into the compressor, you compress it, the heat goes up and the temperature goes up. You take it out to the other side where this meets the process at the factory or an industry where it condenses and gives away the heat at a higher temperature. It goes back, condenses, goes back to the expansion valve and then round it goes. Basically, if you change the expansion valve out with a pump and you turn it around, it's the same thing.
16:03
Chris Wedding:
Okay. Now, let's go from those technologies to another thread in what you were talking about, which is totally around size or amount of heat produced. Maybe describe to us, connect where the product was going, it ended up at a certain side in Switzerland with 30 million euros behind it versus where it is today, which sounds like a process of you all learning what does the market really need versus what kind of tech could we produce, there's a lot there. Does that make sense?
Geir Robstad:
Yeah. I think you had it in at least one of your earlier podcasts where you’re referring to, it's not like falling in love with your technology, but it's a little bit like it that you think you know what the market needs, but you have what you have. I will maybe get to it later, but being courageous and bold enough to say, “Hey, guys, we need to size this up,” it should have been done, of course, earlier.
But I have to say that with the ORC, we already got years of qualification of the technology and platform and the high temperature. So, two very difficult things were already solved with a small, you can call it prototype even, or the workbench type. Also, having 60,000 hours in the ORC in the field and 30,000 on the high-temperature heat pump, even though smaller scale is extremely valuable for the input for us in the further design.
Of course, in the same period, we managed to have a highly skilled team establish that and you can't just go out and buy high-temperature heat pump designers. They're not there, so they need to be developed. We have a strong team and a very diverse team. I think this also gained the head start of the competition and of course, we started developing high-temperature heat pumps before the market even existed. So, it was luck and some things and then we ended up in saying, “Hey, this needs to be to industrial scale. What does the industry need?” Then some fresh papers came out in ‘18, ‘19 that the industry needs a megawatt and upwards.
So, we decided because we have another philosophy when it comes to getting the cost down, very important thing, we need to make it in a way that it is scalable and that 80% of the parts can be reused in larger families. So, you get high volume, low cost, all this stuff. So, now it's one to 1.5 megawatt and we have a big brother in design, which is six megawatts.
Chris Wedding:
Okay, and as far as the stage of the company, do you have units already out on customers sites, is it in progress?
Geir Robstad:
Yeah, so that's always a difficult question. That together with, what is the TRL level? We have our 200-kilowatt machine running three of them in field, so that was three commercial machines when we decided to discontinue this. We are about to have the 1.5-megawatt machine running in Germany within the next month or two. Then I have to say, the market is not somewhat overheated, it's extremely overheated and we are negotiating sales even before the machine is built. Yeah, that's where we are. So, we are in a very, very strange business position, which we like, but it's also frightening because it's all up to us now to make it work.
20:01
Chris Wedding:
Sure. Well, earlier you mentioned the word overheated and I was going to say, that's pretty awesome. Like in a second language, you're making puns on the spot on a podcast. Nice job. Who is the ideal customer, think maybe size of industry or type of industry, location, that kind of thing?
Geir Robstad:
I'll go a little bit more specific, but chemical industry, paper industry, drying processes, fruit drying, those and district heating, those are the four, but what we have sold is to pet, everything that has to do with cleaning, hot water production. This is now future, but even direct air capture or carbon capture storage will never in my mind be commercial without a heat pump. It can never be as the energy needed for adsorption, desorption is way, way too big to not recuperate this.
But more specifically on customers, our business plan is that we go to large industrial companies with large internal market. The reason for that is that they have competent people on the energy side, they know their processes. We sell one, we prove one, we can sell a hundred and this is also part of our rollout or the growth plan that we have people or companies that are sized and rigged to grow and to meet our sales numbers. Because if you go and sell one and one, it will take too much time and too much effort instead of going to these companies which has rollout plans with hundreds of machines needed.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, and who are you selling to? What's the title of the person at these firms?
Geir Robstad:
Usually, it is the, we call it the sustainability engineers. I mean, it's very difficult to say who we're selling to. Again, at the end of the day, it's the procurement guy, director, but our in-sell or selling people or what do you call it, ambassadors, the ones that find the solution is usually sustainability directors or like this emission team. They usually report very often directly to the board or to the management, so this is one type. The other type is we're selling to, I have example of CEOs, which is very forward lean when it comes to the carbon reduction. Also, boards that have taken decision to go carbon neutral. Usually, they push this down to their sustainability group or energy efficiency group, but very often, they also lead the stakeholders in these sales.
Chris Wedding:
Okay. What is you-all’s competition? I guess, it's business as usual, or are there other high temp heat pump companies out there as well?
Geir Robstad:
There are getting more and more. There’s one fact. If there's a market, there will be competitors. It's just a matter of how and when and all this.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah.
Geir Robstad:
There are not many, but some that already are rigged. They are quite diverse in technology and in ability, and we are sure that we are better than all of them. That sounds very [crosstalk – 00:23:38].
23:37
Chris Wedding:
Of course. Yeah.
Geir Robstad:
But we are in a little bit again, luck, a little bit again, being good in getting early in using quite a unique approach, I think, to production because what separates us from the competitors is that we build the heat booster on utilizing a grade to green strategy. I have to explain grade to green, but I think it sounds great.
Chris Wedding:
I'm hooked. Yeah, tell me more.
Geir Robstad:
It is basically to use all positive drivers in heavy duty combustion engine design. I have just two words about that. Can you imagine there are a million super large combustion engines in the world? There is a production facility for all this. There are millions of people working with it. There are hundreds of thousands of designers, service people, all this stuff, which know this kind of stuff in and out.
By working with the world's biggest mobile engine design company, AVL, as our design partner, we have chosen to utilize that. So, the engineering power, there’s 100 years of knowledge into designing bearings, wear and tear and lubrication and all this stuff in engines. Of course, it is quite different than a heavy-duty engine, but it is similar in all the important facts, all the cost drivers.
For example, by building a heavy-duty combustion engine design or having a design where four and 16 cylinders so both are the same family, we use 80% of the parts. So mainly only the big crankcase and the crankshaft is different between them. Everything else is the same. You can use piston cylinder heads, piston rings, con rods, bearings, everything is in one. So, you can imagine the volume you get, the coming of scale.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, I'm thinking of four beautiful letters, Geir, that sound similar to this gray-green approach, which is COTS, commercial-off-the-shelf.
Geir Robstad:
Right.
Chris Wedding:
Right, which is like, innovation's amazing, except that if you need to create every new supply chain, every new skilled person to build the stuff, forget about it. It's going to take too long.
Geir Robstad:
Exactly. I mean, yes. We have had a blast growing the company and I have to admit, one of the difficult parts is that this is not sexy enough. It's not. So, the first glance it’s not innovative enough. It is, trust me, but having a piston-based something has existed for so long that you have to really spell it out there to see, what is your unique selling points? How can this job not be just copied? Or if you can make it in a heavy-duty facility, then it must be easy. No, there's a lot of things around it, but this has been a part of it. If you can't scale it, if you're serious about it, if you want to do an impact, so if you want to save one gigaton in 2050, you have to be serious about it. Then you have to choose something that is very efficient, but also mass-producible and cost. Everybody knows volume creates low cost, high volume, low cost.
27:08
Chris Wedding:
Yeah. Let's pick up on one of those threads there. You mentioned that this is an unsexy technology, yet you all attracted 30 million euros in the past, and now you've attracted other climate VC from our friends at Prime and Azolla. What do you think it is about your unsexy solution that made smart climate tech investors say, “Heck yeah, let's back Heaten,”?
Geir Robstad:
They understand, if you want to do something, if you want to have success since you’re getting this into the industry, you need to have something that stands for robustness, heavy duty. It needs to be mass-producible in plants and techniques, which is known in large numbers. You have to have high efficiency, of course, but also the service is important. Cheap service, easy service. We have used a lot of focus on this. So, when they get the package, so we have chosen a highly efficient, mass-producible in large numbers, it clicks from them and they understand that, yeah, combustion engine world, maybe they don't have a future, which they don't in the future. Maybe they pivot over to the green alternative, which is us, which is a part of our strategy.
We're tapping into a global production, so it's scalable all over the globe. These machines are made all over the place, on license, on contract production. So again, back to what you said, we're not reinventing the wheel and we are using something old in a very new and innovative way, utilizing all the experience, but creating something new and very efficient and needed in the industry.
Chris Wedding:
Hey, it's Chris. Just a brief message from our sponsors and we'll get back to the show. Just kidding, we don't take sponsors. On the other hand, I do have the privilege of leading the only executive peer group community for growth stage, CEOs, founders, and investors fighting climate change. With monthly group meetings, annual retreats, and one-on-one executive coaching calls, our members help each other boost revenue, impact, capital raised, clarity, confidence, work-life balance, and team effectiveness. Today's 30 plus members represent over $8 billion in marketing cap for assets under management for climate solutions. If you're interested, go to entrepreneursforimpact.com and join the waiting list today. All right, back to the show.
As we do, let's switch from the company to the person here. We are people building these climate tech companies. So, Geir, tell us something that you strongly believe in. This can be business. It can be outside of business. What makes you, you as a leader at a place like Heaten?
Geir Robstad:
Well, I'm not sure if I can say it because it's business, but I believe in the business plan that we have, teaming up with large industrial companies, with large internal market to have a proper go-to-market strategy. This is really so clear for me, but I'll do better on my next point. I also believe in a flat company structure. It's maybe very Norwegian, but for me, it's very important that we have a flat structure with that. In our company, in Heaten, we have an intervention policy. That means that everybody can intervene anytime if there's any wrongdoing or anything they are concerned about. It’s all over the line.
30:59
It's very important to us that we have a trust culture. So, if somebody has identified some issues which they have no clue about, but they have some thoughts about it that might be wrong, something that is in the workforce, the employees or technology or in any other, in management, it’s important and it's been repeated quite often that we should have that culture.
I also believe in an honest and balanced business. I think that's the best for both parties, and gives the best working environment and the best results for both at the end. I want Heaten and us to be looked upon as honest business people. Of course, we take care of our company. It’s a little bit like, selling the first unit is easy, selling the second is the hard part. Right?
Chris Wedding:
Yeah.
Geir Robstad:
So, having that trust relationship with our customer is important to me.
Chris Wedding:
Okay, I'm with you. Yeah, I like that empowerment for anybody at any level to speak up whether it's tech issue, culture issue, et cetera. How about looking backwards, Geir, what advice might you give your younger self to be more effective, happier on this journey?
Geir Robstad:
Oh, that's a hard one. My key takeaway would be to trust your gut feeling more. So, I repeat to myself, it is your unconscious mind that tries to advise you. Trust more your gut feeling. That is important to me and I've learned that very, very high percentage, my gut feeling is right when I have overlooked it or ignored it.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah. I both love that and I'm trying to sync it up with research saying, 70, 80% of our unconscious thoughts are negative and fear-based and self-preservation-based. It's like, maybe don't listen to those as much because those fears are often outdated, if you will.
Geir Robstad:
I fully understand what you're saying. Maybe this is absolutely not scientific at all, but I think there is a separation between the feeling you're having in your gut and the fear, but maybe that's just me. Also, if there's some more, I would say to my younger self, I would say, on the business side, look at the market and focus on solving and removing the pain points with your customers. And the end, this is maybe a little bit cheesy, but it's important, of course, spending more time with your family, they are the biggest support and strength. So, that I would say.
Chris Wedding:
Well, I mean, I fully support the last one for sure, but on the middle one, it actually relates to part of you-all’s journey. As I heard it, you-all had the ability to produce a certain technology, but it wasn't quite what the market, what the customers, wanted exactly. And I think, so often starters including myself early on, would say, “Oh, well, I want to create this cool technology without talking to a hundred potential customers first to see if that's what they really wanted, but it's so pretty.” Anyway.
34:30
Geir Robstad:
Yes, it's so pretty and I love it and falling in love with your technology is dangerous, but also it's a little bit like what’s driving us. This is of course wrong, but it is most likely your creativity, inner engineer or whatever that drives you to come up with stuff. Not necessarily to gain money on it and to find the market, but just to achieve something, solve a problem.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, I like that. Your inner engineer maybe phrased differently. We should build stuff. It's just that sometimes those things we build, nobody wants and that's okay too, just don't try to make it a business.
Geir Robstad:
Just don't bet money on it, right?
Chris Wedding:
Yeah. How about habits or routines that keep you healthy, sane and focused, Geir?
Geir Robstad:
Well, I'm an active diver, so I'm diving every weekend in Norway at four degrees C at the moment.
Chris Wedding:
Okay.
Geir Robstad:
35 in my Fahrenheit, I think. So, that's one thing and the reason for the diving is so important to me is that nobody can disturb or talk to you underwater. That’s impossible. No phones ringing, nobody stops by. I love my colleagues, but to have peace in mind and just be alone in my head, that's [crosstalk – 00:35:51].
Chris Wedding:
Great. You go under freezing water underground where you could die and nobody will talk to you.
Geir Robstad:
Yeah, and you could of course just pull out the vent and just end it. No, I'm just kidding.
Chris Wedding:
Not that bad. Not that much silence. Yeah.
Geir Robstad:
No. So, that's one thing. Currently, I'm in Denmark. I have a small farmhouse. My wife is Danish and I love being there, so having all the animals around, waking up to this is something that keeps me sane. We have long trips, walking trips and also in Mandal, where I come from in Norway, we have some big beaches and then forests, which on walks and exercise there.
Chris Wedding:
Love it. As a Norwegian, I have to ask, are you getting into saunas after you get out of very, very cold water?
Geir Robstad:
No, I'm not. I'm certainly not so fan about saunas. I was allergic to it by school or something. We were forced into the saunas with boiling temperature inside. I like really getting into cold water with, of course, a dry suit. Also, it's quite exhausting, but you feel good. It's like you have exercised after you're done.
37:11
Chris Wedding:
Invigorating, yeah. Stereotypes be damned. This Norwegian dives in cold water, does not get in hot saunas, is that right? How about recommendations for books, podcasts, tools, quotes, et cetera?
Geir Robstad:
I have a Hans Rosling book called Ten Reasons We’re Wrong About the World - and Why Things Are Better Than You Think. I know this is highly debated, this work, but if you read it, main part of it makes you feel good about the future of the world. Of course, after I've read it, we had Ukraine crisis, we had the US-China being more stressed, the relationship and all this stuff. But if you look at poverty, hunger, all this stuff, we're in a much better shape than we think. So, this is what this book is about.
I also have a Norwegian physician and professor of general practice. He's now dead. He died in 2017, but he has a really good quote. For new entrepreneurs, he has a quote saying, if you never get to test yourself in danger zone, how are you supposed to become fit for fighting the jungle? So, that means that you need to explore your limits before you're in the heat, before you need them.
You need to stress yourself, put yourself in situations where you're not comfortable, challenge yourself, because when you need it, you will have it. So, if you don't present for 10 people, how can you then all of a sudden present for a thousand people? Or if you don't speak up in team, how will you ever get anywhere? Or if you don't take any chances, how will you ever get anywhere?
Then my last recommendation is, you will know him probably very well, Michael Liebreich, his podcast is something that I'm, in addition to your big fan of. I think he has some highly relevant subjects. He’s outspoken and a realist, which he doesn't really go with the flow and he tests. He has a lot to say about hydrogen. I'm not going to say anything more. He has reality checks on very important subjects.
Chris Wedding:
Yeah, and very data driven as the creator of New Energy Finance, which became Bloomberg New Energy Finance, of course. Yeah, great thought leader for sure. Well, Geir, this is great. I wish we could hang out and go for a stroll on your Denmark farm after this podcast. Alas, maybe not this time.
Geir Robstad:
You're most welcome. I'll go down and meet you there. So, if you come to Denmark, we will have a stroll.
Chris Wedding:
Perfect. Well, listen, we're rooting for the success of Heaten, clearly a big need in the industrial setting for the solutions you all are producing. Any final words for listeners, folks you want to hear from, calls to action, et cetera?
Geir Robstad:
I would really share, and this is of course, business-wise low to us, but it's also very close to my heart. I really want high temperature heat pump to be a major part of the ongoing energy transition and decarbonization. We need to reduce waste heat that we already have produced regardless of future energy sources. Heat pumps also is instrumental on the majority of these carbon capture and direct capture processes. So, we need to spread knowledge in the industry on how to integrate. We also need to spread knowledge on what heat pumps can do so this can be used.
41:12
The biggest medical pharmaceutical company in the world, the sustainability director, he said it very nicely. He is 100% sure within 10 years, the high temperature heat pump is as normal as anything else in the industry and that's where we need to go.
Chris Wedding:
Dot, dot, dot, especially in the US.
Geir Robstad:
Yeah, because the US is lagging on this subject and I'm not saying Europe is doing very well either. They are just waking up, but I really want to reach out to my second home. I live there, in the US, and to ask for them to have a closer look at high temperature heat pumps.
Chris Wedding:
Well, I think things like the Inflation Reduction Act are certainly going to help make heat pumps more mainstream.
Geir Robstad:
Yeah, absolutely.
Chris Wedding:
All right, Geir, with that, we'll call it a day, man. Good to talk to you. Talk soon.
Thanks for listening and if you want more intel on climate tech, better habits and deep work, then join the thousands of others who have subscribed to our Substack newsletter at entrepreneursforimpact.com or drop me a note on LinkedIn. All right, that's all y'all. Take care.
ABOUT OUR PODCAST
We talk about #ClimateTech #Startups #VentureCapital #Productivity and #Leadership.
And we’ve become one of the top 3% most popular podcasts in the world.
Why do climate innovators love us?
Because of our inspiring guests — dozens of climate tech CEOs, founders, and investors that are raising or investing tens of millions of dollars and removing millions of tons of greenhouse gas emissions from the atmosphere.
Why should you listen?
To start, grow, and invest in businesses with impact, meaning, and profit.
Learn about our guests’ career paths, founder stories, business strategies, investment criteria, growth challenges, hard-earned wisdom, productivity habits, life hacks, favorite books, and lots more.
Who is the host?
Dr. Chris Wedding is a 4x founder, 4x Board member, climate CEO peer group leader and coach, Duke & UNC professor, ex-private equity investor, ex-investment banker, podcast host, newsletter author, occasional monk, Japanophile, ax throwing champ, father of three, and super humble guy (as evidenced by this long bio). 😃
Learn more here:
Climate CEO peer group community: www.entrepreneursforimpact.com
2-minute newsletter: https://entrepreneursforimpact.substack.com
DIY course about startup capital raising (170 slides, 70-item library, 250-investor list): https://t.ly/QCcl5