The Entrepreneurs for Impact Podcast: Transcripts
#138:
Finding Purpose Out of Pain as a CEO — Shawn Lesser, Cofounder of The Real
Chris Wedding:
Welcome to the Entrepreneurs for Impact podcast. My name is Chris Wedding. As a former environmental private equity investor, four times founder, climate tech CEO, coach and professor, I launched this podcast to share the entrepreneurial journey, practical tips and hard-earned wisdom from CEOs and investors tackling climate change. And if you like what you hear, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast player. This is the number one way that listeners can learn more about the climate CEOs and investors that I interview. All right, let's get started.
My guest today is Shawn Lesser, Co-founder of The Real, that's his current role and also, Shawn was the Co-founder of Big Path Capital, which some of you may already know of. The Real is helping entrepreneurs deal with burnout and depression by connecting with others, going through those same mental health challenges on the hard road that is entrepreneurship or look, other high achievers as well with lots of stress, both at work and outside of work.
For background, Big Path Capital is according to Barron's magazine, let's say the Impact Investment Bank, their network of 2,500 plus limited partners, aka investors like pension funds and university endowments, and 200 plus impact-focused private equity firms has led to billions of dollars flowing into companies that prioritize both profit and positive environmental and social impacts.
02:21
In this episode, we talked about what triggered his depression. The impacts of having too much of his identity tied up in his business. Why a fishbowl being shaken up relates to where he was at that time. What he learned after spending three stints in centers to boost his mental health. The speaking tour that he and his co-founder, Brent Herd, are currently on. Why The Real is about finding purpose out of pain. What an Uber driver and a post-exit entrepreneur with 800 million bucks as an exit have in common and a whole lot more.
So, look, this is not a typical episode, in the best possible way a message that more of us need to be thinking about given the reach of mental health challenges broadly, but certainly in the startup space as well. Hope you or someone that you care about gets a lot out of it and please give Shawn and The Real a shout-out on LinkedIn, Slack or Twitter by sharing this podcast with your people. Thanks.
All right, Shawn Lesser, I'm going to start with your current title, Co-founder of The Real dot, dot, dot also Co-founder of Big Path Capital, we'll cover both of those. Welcome to the podcast, man.
Shawn Lesser:
Thanks, brother. Glad to be here. Excited to talk to you.
Chris Wedding:
So, for listeners, you've got a couple of Southerners here talking about impact. Well, obviously impact originated, not really, but anyway, a couple of impact folks here in the South talking about two topics. One is just the background and that is the big path, if you will and then we’ll switch to the real meat of today, a different flavor for our podcast today, but a super, super important one. I'm so glad that you're sharing your experience and building something around to help others, but Shawn, maybe let's start Big Path. You got some pretty fun stats with what you all have built with that business of the impact investing space. Tell us that story, man.
Shawn Lesser:
I'm going to tell you that story. I'm going to give two seconds on before that. So, New York, Long Island, Syracuse University. I was in New York City, I did 15 years, I did international institutional equity sales, basically selling stocks to banks overseas. That went on for 15 years. Then basically in the market, remember back in the day, people traded stock in fractions, then they went to decimals. There were no more spreads after they went to decimals because people don't know their fractions, but they know their decimals.
05:06
So, then 16 years ago, past those 15 years, I co-founded Big Path Capital with a partner of mine who was the first impact investment bank out there, so let's say that's around 2007. In those days, you could fit the amount of impact investors in a phone booth. Not that we have phone booths anymore, but you know what I'm saying. So, really when we started, a lot of education was involved because a lot of people weren’t of that mindset that you could make money and do good.
So, fast forward 16 years later, we worked with over 50 impact companies doing your typical investment banking, engagement raising capital, M&A, sell side, et cetera. We worked with over 200 impact private equity funds. That's the side that I head up. So, we worked with more funds than anybody else in the world at about an LP network of 2,500 LPs, put on ballpark 60 impact investor events. We also had an online investor portal. So, that was a go-to, but we built that over the years as the space was growing.
Chris Wedding:
And for those listening, I think many know about LP being limited partners.
Shawn Lesser:
Sorry.
Chris Wedding:
That's okay. I think pension funds, university endowments, et cetera, those allocating capital to managers, I think BCPE managers.
Shawn Lesser:
And then as the managers, putting money into different companies.
Chris Wedding:
There you go. Yeah. Maybe give us an example or two of the kind of capital raising mandate you take on, like who's the company? What's the raise look like? Just to make you kind of--
Shawn Lesser:
Sure. So, our claim to fame, Big Path, was we did work with Vital Farms, a sustainable ag company. They did a couple of different rounds and we raised from five to $20 million short company, usually B, C, later stage companies. My old partner, he handled that side of the business, so that was one side of it.
Then the second side was helping the funds raise capital, the LPs, investors, GPs, the funds. So, we'd work with funds, smallest 50 million, largest up to a billion. So, people were writing checks, million dollars on the low side, 30, $40 million on the high side and everything in between. Then those investors were family offices, institutional investors, some high net worths, but that was the makeup, but they have an affinity for impact investing. So that was tough in the beginning because there weren't too many of it.
07:46
Chris Wedding:
And if I recall correctly, was it Barron's who called you guys quote unquote, the impact investment bank, is that right?
Shawn Lesser:
Yeah, that was from Barron's, impact investment bank. Yep.
Chris Wedding:
Maybe one more thing for listeners, just to be clear of is that, what you just described was two types of capital raises. I think many listeners think of, “Oh, well, if you're a startup, you got to go raise money to grow,” I get that part, and that's really fricking hard. I think it's really easy to assume those fund managers allocating capital, they just hang out and hammocks and eat bonbons, like they just have it made. But au contraire, they got to beat their head against the same damn wall going to the LPs to raise capital for their fund. So, anyway, it kind of works in both directions. They're not even to you the same pain of raising capital.
Shawn Lesser:
Well, then they have to report to those LPs. So, they still have someone that they need to report to. So, everyone's reported to somebody else. It's all trickling down.
Chris Wedding:
There you go. Okay. So, that's one reason we know each other is from that kind of work, that kind of blending of finance and impact and not sacrificing financial returns, but recently there's been a change for the work you do, personally and for the work you do, importantly to say. When you reached out on email to say, “Hey, look, here's the change,” I thought, “Well, holy shit, this is really important. Thank you for sharing.” And damn, you're also building maybe a larger community or acceptance or tools around this challenge that too few folks talk about. So, maybe let's start with that story, Shawn.
Shawn Lesser:
Yeah, so you got the LinkedIn story on the paper on my resume, but what happened personally, it was September of this past year and I got really depressed. I was having trouble eating. I was having trouble sleeping. I lost around 40 pounds. Then it was December 18th and this was just building where I basically, it's not a medical term, but I had a full mental breakdown where I really wasn't functioning. I was just in bad shape and really couldn't talk or interact with my family. I was basically suicidal telling my wife, “I don't want to be here.” I just was in a very dark place. So, what do you do with someone like that? Because it's just like, where do you go? You can’t go and Google those types of things.
10:14
So, we went to the hospital here in Atlanta. We went to Emory and then they're like, “Do you want to bring into the institution?” And I'm like, “Yeah, sign me up.” So, I went into this institution where basically they check you for pens and pencils and rope and et cetera, so you kind of get my point. I was there for three days. Then I came out still not doing that great.
My mother was 81, came from Long Island, just to be with me along with my wife. My wife did an amazing job. Then I was going back to work, but sometimes you have partners and things, you still look at things differently so I eventually got bought out of Big Path. At that time, like a lot of your founders here, my whole life, my whole existence was based on the company. You would never find me not wearing a Big Path hat. Every picture in my house is from a business trip, just totally ingrained in it.
So, once that phone stopped ringing, I stopped interacting with people, I really went into a deeper depression. I was literally shaking like this for two months. It was a dark place. And then at that time, and the story of the Rio was, another guy gets in the story. It's also a story of friendship. There was a guy, his name is Brent Herd.
Now our kids played little league baseball together here in Atlanta. When you're playing on a sport or you see other parents, you talk to them and some of them you team up with and you talk and you become friends. So, we were friends, but we weren't like best buddies. So, then my wife, when this was happening, she says to me, “Shawn, you need to contact Brent,” and I'm like, “Brent, he’s a good guy. I like him and everything, but why I got to contact that guy?” She's like, “I just have a feeling.”
So, the story goes, it's also on the website that my wife reached out to Brent basically in a text saying, “Shawn's in a bad place,” and Brent came back quickly and was like, “This is happening to a lot of guys. Happens to everyone, guys, women, et cetera, but happens to a lot of guys. Is he in a safe place?” And from that point, Brent became my sponsor slash guardian angel because he unbeknownst to me had gone through something similar 10 years before. Brent, he was early in Yahoo and Twitter, so our relationship grew from there where we’d go on walks together. I'd be in a bad spot, my wife would be like, “Call Brent. He's got the words for this,” and he really helped me get through this dark spell that I was in and it was not fun.
12:47
So, then after with Brent, then I went away to two treatment centers, one in California and then one in Hollywood, Florida. So, at these treatment centers, they take away your cell phone. You're basically in therapy and you're in a way secluded, but you're also in a community with the other people. So, I was there for 60 days or so. I came back out of there feeling 50, 60%, but I was definitely better and me and Brent were talking on the phone afterwards. We were like, “Dude, that was some serious stuff. That was some real blank,” and I was like, “Yeah, that was serious, man.” “That's what you said, it's real.” I said, “Yeah, that's what we're going to call it. We're going to call it The Real.” And he's like, “What is it?” I'm like, “I'm not sure, but listen, there's a lot of men, women, and families suffering out there and we want to go out there and help them and we want to tell our story of the friendship. I had to get through it because I know why people kill themselves and I know when you’re in that dark place,” people when they're in that dark place, you think there's no end to it. You think this is never going to change. I thought I was handicapped for life, but I can tell you just from my experience that it does end, but now we want to help, we don’t need people to get there and if they're there, we want to also help them.
Chris Wedding:
It's an important message to be sharing. I think a lot of folks, I mean, I know this from working with lots of CEOs, burnout is really real. The risk is always there. Maybe going back to where you started, you mentioned there was this depression, this mental breakdown before exiting Big Path. Through your work at these different centers or otherwise, any sense for what triggered?
Shawn Lesser:
This is a good question. So, I don't think it was one factor, it was multiple of factors. I would say one is, I've had depressions here and there throughout my life and I took some medication for that, antidepressants. But sometimes when you're on antidepressants, you're feeling better, you're like, “I don't want to take that anymore,” and I went off of it. Again, I'm going to give you multiple of reasons why so that happened.
15:00
Also, I'm not blaming this, but I also got COVID right before this happened, so it was just like a combination. Then I think just work stress in general. I also think, I got a 14 and 15-year-old, so a lot of changes, going to high school, all these new things were happening. And I also think honestly, I'm 54 and sometimes when you get to that age, you're like, who am I? What am I doing? Where have I been? So, I can't pinpoint it and say like this happened, but it was a multitude of factors that created that scenario.
Chris Wedding:
Right, and you mentioned that coming out of these treatment centers, such as the one where you spent two months there, you came out a lot better, but maybe just 50%. I wonder if you could share examples of things that happened during your time at these centers that allowed you to go from zero to 50%.
Shawn Lesser:
They’re both different. One was in California and they were really about the therapy with the hydro, going into the hot and the cold, but I would say the combined factor was both places you were in a community with other people that have gone through a similar thing. So, it's almost like you could relate to them. That's the same thing with Brent, that he could relate to me.
So, when I was in those places, I could relate to the other people, even though, especially in Florida, the people were a lot younger than me. Generally, it's 18 to 25 years old, and even though they were age different, all the people came together. Even in Florida, there were people at this center -- The first question was, what's your DOC, drug of choice? I was like, “I don't have a drug of choice. I just have anxiety.” So, we have a whole mix of different types of people together that somehow came to a community to try to help each other. So, that was really nice.
I think also they really keep you busy at those places so your mind has fewer things to focus on and of course, you have the therapy. I had a therapist and she said an interesting thing. She said, “Shawn, it's like you're in a fishbowl and someone's just shaking it really crazy and you're that fish and you don't know what side is up.” I want to say, the other thing is that was a tough thing for me and that probably is for other founders and CEOs is acceptance. Like you don't work there anymore. It's just like, I shoulda, coulda, woulda, so I was just living in that shoulda, coulda, woulda head that is hard to get out of it. I tried to get out of that. I did get out of that, but those were some of the things that I had to overcome. Again, these are mental things. Physically, I was okay.
17:51
Chris Wedding:
I just finished listening to slash reading this book, Outlive, by Dr. Peter Attia and I think everyone if they listen to this podcast or whatever else, they think about cerebral left brain, gush it together, super healthy, super fit, et cetera, but the last chapter of his book, I think it was the last chapter, he talks about emotional health. He talks about how he had some undealt with traumas, ended up affecting his personal relationships, his work, and eventually found his way to a number of different centers, which really saved him. So, yeah, I think what I've heard from you, what I think what folks who would read Outlive see lots of centers, lots of variety out there, but a real ability in your words to learn which way is up. To not be just the fish in the fishbowl being shaken up.
Shawn Lesser:
Yeah, and I’ll also tell you, Chris, so I've had a lot of conversations with different folks and just being straight and candid with them. I'm not going to say to the person, but almost to every person either they're like, “Thank you. I had X, Y, and Z, my dad, my brother.” I think it touches almost every human in some way and somehow. So, you don't hear these things because they're not talked about widely, it's kind of hush-hush. It's under the table and I get it, it's how people might perceive you, but it's an epidemic.
Chris Wedding:
Okay. So, we pause there in your story to ask a few questions.
Shawn Lesser:
Sure.
Chris Wedding:
Let's zoom the story.
Shawn Lesser:
Okay. So, let's go back. We were saying, what is this? Let's call it The Real, right? What is The Real becoming? Then I reached out on LinkedIn, I got a lot of responses and a couple of responses, one was from a group called Tiger 21. So, Tiger 21, I don't know if you're familiar with that, but it's a high-net-worth individual group, you need $20 million or more to be in. And they're like, “Hey, we want you to come speak to our group.” I'm like, “Okay.” So, me and Brent spoke to them twice. We talked to them twice in Chicago and they have five groups in Atlanta, we're going to have an event with all five groups in Atlanta. Then we were thinking, “You know what? I love a good road show.” So, I'm like, “We're going to take this on the road.” So now we're going to do a tour. We're going to Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, Greenwich, Connecticut, and the Hamptons.
20:22
So, what's the goal really? We're building a men's mental health brand focused on real media and also down the line I'm going to say investments because I have a non-compete, so I don't want to compete yet. But basically, people are coming to us that want to know the story. They might be investors, they might be companies, they might be fathers, they might be projects. So, these things are organically occurring and as we're going around through this tour, which we're planning on doing at people's homes, people are also self-identifying that they want to help in this space. So, a lot of people, it's constant like, “How can we help?”
I would say also around that whole thing, what you talked about before, Chris, is we're also building up a community of folks because we want to create a safe space where we're having this conversation. It's not a normal conversation, all right. I'm not saying it should be a normal conversation, but we want to create a safe space for some of your CEOs can talk to other CEOs or other folks or other peers and feel like, “I'm not going to be judged. I can say what I want,” and just feel a little bit like me and Brent where you can just get it out.
Chris Wedding:
Well, certainly whether it's at those centers where you were with folks going through similar struggles or with the community you're building, I can totally relate. As we've discussed the work we do at Entrepreneurs for Impact with these climate tech CEOs or renewable energy development CEOs, it isn't so much the mental health reasons they come to make members, but it is being around others with similar ambitions, with similar challenges and opportunities. Yeah, real power for sure. No need for us to figure all this shit out on our own.
Shawn Lesser:
And I'll add to that because we were just having the call, since we have interesting calls every day, but we were talking to one guy who was saying, the majority of your really strong relationships were probably built around in college years. You have your boys or your girls or whatever and then as you get older, you're getting busier, you have things going on, you're not having those deep relationships, because in college you probably have roommates or whatever. So, it's important for people to have those types of relationships with other people. Everyone wants to do good in business. Everyone wants to make money. Everyone wants to change the world, but that's going to make you a stronger individual inside and out.
22:56
Chris Wedding:
We don't need to spend more time on this, but I think it's interesting from a business point of view, I mean, this is a personal story, personal mission for you two. But from a business perspective, going on a speaking tour, sharing this story with so many people and not necessarily knowing what the product, if you will, will be, in a way it's okay. You know you're creating tons of value building trust with these folks you're sharing deeply with and it’s like, who knows what's going to come over the transom or some of these deep relationships that you're forming.
I mean, it's very different the way most folks would build a business, certainly, a funded business. But what you're doing, not that it has to be a business, but most of us think this way. Maybe you and I, and the listeners do, not knowing, but knowing, again, you're creating the social capital that will lead, it'll be a magnus, I guess is the word I'm looking for.
Shawn Lesser:
No, and I agree and we're getting there to flush out really the business side of it. I can see it. I can see it's involved in media. I could see the investments. It's not totally flushed out yet. I think people are just attracted to this. They're just like, “How can we help?” Some folks are like, “Shawn, you don't have to pay me. I just want to be part of the mission,” but I'm a capitalist, so yeah, there's a business here and mental health on the business side, it's a huge opportunity. I think I saw some numbers; it's growing to be a half a trillion-dollar business by I think 2030 or something like that. Don't quote me on those numbers, but if you think of the market size, it's literally almost every human on the planet.
Chris Wedding:
Okay, so thinking about The Real, again, as folks, if they've seen the port and clicked on it, they know that this is R-E-A-L, like the real deal. When you talk about the community or the benefits you offer to folks that are going through this, one question might be, well, are there therapists, are there psychiatrists, et cetera, as part of the offering? Because that's a suit to be part of the solution set. So, is that part of what you imagine, not so much?
Shawn Lesser:
Yeah. So again, work in progress. Anything could change here, Chris, as entrepreneurs know, but at this time I think it's more peer-to-peer. It's more about having conversations. Again, we're not therapists. You need therapists from time to time and I'm not a doctor, but I also know just from a personal experience, when I was going through this, it was the people around me besides those people that were supporting me, checking in on me, trying to help me.
So, could there be therapists in the future? Sure. Again, there are liabilities and all this. If you go on that way, I don't know the answer to any of that. That could happen, but I don't see that right now. It's more of a safe space where high-achieving CEOs or individuals can feel comfortable sharing with each other. A little bit like what you have with your CEOs because they're sharing their ups and downs, could be about work, could be about finance, could be about family, whatever it is, everyone is on a journey and it’s about life sharing that journey.
Chris Wedding:
How’s it been out there having these conversations, either in person or virtual? You mentioned some of the surprises already folks saying, “Look, just give me a way to help you.” But what are some other stories perhaps that you've heard or trends that you've seen as folks tell their stories, tell why this is personal to them?
Shawn Lesser:
That's an interesting question. I'm trying to think of the trends. It's just every time we get on a call, it's literally touched everyone, mental health, obviously, or in some way, or their families. It's crazy how when I talk about it, here's a trend, people will say, “Shawn, I've never told anyone this.” That's what they say to me and I'm like, “Dude, don't worry. I'm not going to say anything, it's all good.” So, a lot of people sharing stuff, I've shared with them. They feel comfortable opening up with me in confidence and that's nice.
Then I'm talking to some guys that are in a dark place. I'm like, “Dude, I've been there, man. I know how it feels. I know how you feel. I know how bad it is.” So, I really like to say, “Hey, I'm talking from experience, there is a light at the end of the tunnel,” because when you're in that space, I said it before, I'm just repeating myself, but it's dark, man. You don't want to get out of bed. You don't want to take a shower. You don't want to do anything. You just want to just lie there. So, just to get these people to understand that that's not permanent because when you're there, you think it's permanent.
Chris Wedding:
Some folks may be listening and think, “Well, there's not a community necessarily at The Real,” or, “I'm dealing with this shit like right now, I can't wait for something to be created later.” Maybe whether it's through the practices you've learned or relearned in the last X months, or those you've gathered from Brent or others that you're talking closely with on this journey. I don't know. Again, full disclaimer, not a psychologist, not a therapist, not a psychiatrist, but as a person, Shawn, what are some things, habits, medication, not medication maybe, or maybe broadly speaking, how are the tools in your toolkit?
Shawn Lesser:
Sure. So, some things I stopped doing when I was not feeling good was exercising. Anyone can exercise. No matter if your legs hurt, you can do something else. So, now I went back to the gym and I’m going to the gym three times a week. I think the other thing is keeping my mind busy with different things, different projects, also socializing with people. I'm not like the most sociable guy, but even right now -- I used to work at my house, but now I'm in an office space. Am I talking to everybody? No, but I think humans need humans. So, you need to get out of your house. It's tough.
Even if just hanging out in a Starbucks is good. Even if you're just hanging out there or a coffee shop, just to be around other humans. These are simple things. It's not complicated. Or just try to do one or two things that you haven't been doing before or reach out to, sounds silly, an old friend. Or another thing people always tell you, “Hey, volunteer some.” So, I did some volunteering. Those aren’t deep therapy things. There are other therapy kind of techniques, but again, I'm not a therapist and the therapists do amazing jobs, but that's not my expertise.
Chris Wedding:
And having worked with lots of investors, CEOs, I know I've seen lots of folks that have reached it or are close to reaching, maybe not the same state, but similar states of breakdown, burnout. Maybe it's obvious to those listening because I think many folks listening are investors, entrepreneurs, or just so committed to the cause that it's easy to forget your needs as well. But maybe, again, speaking personally, what do you think makes founders, CEOs, and investors more susceptible to reaching these positions? Or is it the kind of person that becomes a CEO, an investor tends to have a proclivity kind of built-in? I'm not really sure that's true now, but anyway, you get the gist.
Shawn Lesser:
Yeah. So, I think for me, and I'm not saying this for anybody else, but just still having my whole existence just revolve around the business. There was not room for anything else, so you need to have room for other things because when that thing, for whatever reason, might disappear and you're like, “Who am I?” But you're still, a dad, a friend, an uncle, a neighbor, whatever it is. So, you don't want to lose touch of that, that you're more than, “Hey, I want these CEOs to achieve great things,” but you got to understand that you're not just a CEO. I was just a co-founder. I mean, it's a good thing, but just try to be more well-rounded.
31:47
Chris Wedding:
Yeah. That's really interesting. I agree that our identity is more than our job for sure. Although it is certainly a big focus of [inaudible – 00:31:57], especially in the States. One of my habits is meditation and the study of Buddhism and so it's funny to think about the contrast because I think what you said is true. We are many things. I think it's also true that the Buddhists would say, “Yeah, but we're also none of those things.” Anyway, it's almost like the extremes. There's this answer for the extremes around your identity, but maybe not for it to be just by one definition.
Shawn Lesser:
Yeah. No, I agree with you. I agree with you on that and really whatever works for you, honestly, because it could be faith, it could be meditation, Buddhism, mindfulness, at the end of the day, it's kind of like climate change when they say all the above, what are you going to do? It's the same kind of thing and everybody's different. Certain things are not going to work for certain people. They just have different makeups.
Chris Wedding:
And the listeners to the podcast, it is maybe not perfectly evenly split between men and women. Your mission, your community is around mental health for men. Now you said it a couple of times that look, this is a struggle for everyone. Maybe just speaking more broadly, maybe why did you choose for it to be just the mental health for men?
Shawn Lesser:
I would say there's a lot of men, women, and families suffering. So, even though let's say The Real for now is focused on men because it's two guys in the story, but for sure my wife was so instrumental in everything because there was a time when I was non-responsive. She literally was talking in my ear and it was a full-time job just figuring out insurance, this, that, and the other thing. And women have these same issues too. I would say men are different in a little bit in this way, just a little example, so when women talk, they talk face to face, men are usually shoulder to shoulder.
So, women in general are going to go deeper, guys, they just have a little bit more that’s just, I don't know, genetics or something. So, then on the younger people side, this was also very hard on my kids. I got a 14 and 15-year-old. I tried to hide it in the beginning, but literally, when you're shaking and you're non-responsive to your family, you can't hide it anymore. Then when I went away for 60 days and came back, I missed a lot of stuff. I said to my kids, “I'm sorry,” and they said, Daddy, it was okay. We're just happy that you're back and you can be our daddy again.”
34:46
So, we're focused on men because we are men. I'm not going to take up the expertise on women. In the future, it's obviously race, creed, color, it doesn't matter. I'm going to tell you a little story.
Chris Wedding:
Go for it.
Shawn Lesser:
So, we were talking to a group of investors and this sounds ridiculous, one of the guys was like, “A guy had a 800 million dollar exit and he was miserable.” You would think money's going to solve that. What are you talking about? Guy had $800 million, he's miserable? So then after that event, I went into an Uber and I was in Chicago. I was heading to Midway. I got in the taxi and I was speaking to an investor friend of mine, telling him about The Real, kind of this conversation. Of course, I had it on speakerphone and then the taxi driver said, he's a really nice guy, he’s like, “Hey, I was listening in.” I was like, “Dude, we're on speaker. Of course, you're listening in.” He said, “There was a reason why you are in the taxi with me,” not the taxi, the Uber. Then he went into telling me his situation. So, everyone has their struggles. You’re driving, you have $800 million on exit and still, but everyone has their struggles.
So, that's just giving you a juxtaposition of what just happened. I tell you one other kind of crazy thing is, I'm not really like religious, but the funny thing was, I had come into Midway. My plane flew into Midway, I assumed it was flying out of Midway. Right, you would assume that, but I went into Uber, I went to Midway, had the conversation with this young guy, a driver and then when I got to the airport, I went through security and they told me you're in the wrong airport. So, I had to go to O'Hare. So, if I went to O'Hare, we wouldn't have talked, but it was just one of those stories.
Chris Wedding:
Yep. For sure. Look, Shawn, this is great. Appreciate you sharing the story, a very atypical format and topic for our podcast, a hundred and whatever, 30 episodes in, but so glad we were able to do this. Excited to see what becomes of The Real and I have no doubt, you're going to have a lot of folks get through similar events, similar state.
37:14
Shawn Lesser:
And we also, Chris, want to build a company, so there's both sides to this. We're going to help people and hey, there's nothing wrong with making money.
Chris Wedding:
That's full circle from you co-founding Big Path. It’s possible to do both and not sacrifice either. Look, you can sacrifice, it is possible to sacrifice returns and do good things, but also many more examples where that's not required. Listen, man, rooting for your success.
Shawn Lesser:
Thanks, Chris.
Thanks for listening and if you want more intel on climate tech, better habits, and deep work, then join the thousands of others who subscribe to our Substack newsletter at entrepreneursforimpact.com or drop me a note on LinkedIn. All right. That's all, y'all. Take care.
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